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Feministing's response to Lorri Gottlieb's argument that women should settle for Mr. Good Enough. Are the assumptions of Gottlieb's argument anti-feminist? What are the merits of Gottlieb's argument Do you agree with her?
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8 comments:
Gottlieb says she is feminist, therfore I don't think she is trying to be anti-feminist but like race feminism is a delicate subject. However, marriage is not suppose to be a prison sentence and when one chooses to get married it is suppose to be under the impression that they are happy and ready to comitt to a longer period of happiness with the other person. The arguments made against Gottlieb and other authors on the same subject rule out the fact that women have less time to obtain an education, career and family. While men can continue to go about their course because they don't have to worry about infertile eggs or who will stay homw when Timmy is sick. Women are put on the fence, do you want to be self gradified through a career or do you want a family? Noone askes men do you love your mother of father, you can't love both. Not all women can make such an easy choice because time is not on their side. Gottlieb reverses feminism by suggesting that the progression women have made has only burdened them.
"Gottlieb says she is feminist, therefore I don't think she is trying to be anti-feminist but like race feminism is a delicate subject", Kristine Bundy student AACC. My personal opinion is that Gottlieb believes in feminism but however, she lacks the courage to actually be a feminist. A true feminist would not go against the rights that feminists have fought for; equal careers, equal pay, equal equity, equality. I admit I don’t want to become an old lady with cats, but I will not settle for Mr. Good Enough ; is he really going to be Good Enough or just some guy that is willing to say I do because he’s really Mr. Not Any Good. I don’t think Gottlieb is being completely honest with us and I believe she is starting to blame Feminism for her being single. If she were a feminist she would embrace it and not be hypocritical of what it is to be a feminist. Being a strong, independent woman with a golden job doesn’t make you a feminist, but embracing the rights of feminism and not degrading single women for wanting Mr. Right is a step to becoming a Feminist. I know men who say they would be happy to have an independent woman yet still at the end of the day they want Betty Crocker. Now is it anything wrong with this? Not at all just don’t blame feminism for turning Betty Croker into Susan B. Anthony. I think it should be a book called (Settling for a Feminist) how about that. Because it seems like it’s the men here that want it all, they want the: career woman, housewife, loving mother, all star chef and football captain’s head cheer leader but at the end of the day women are humans and we can’t be everything and everyone.
Response to previous post:
Feminisms have been approached in many different ways throughout history. Not all feminist can or will approach oppression the same, given personal interst. As Dr. Rellihan mentioned of a feminist democrats mentality to womens suffrage, "You catch more flies with honey than vinager." People become involved in what affects them most. Gottlieb may not be standing behind the cause as she once did but she is questioning its methods and its causes, which is completely apart of our democracy. When we don't prefer the effect we improve, that is human instinct. Gottlieb's expressions are from the 1990s and are not the same as today's approaches, because while women in the 90s gained more educational access that doesn't mean they had the respect and options that their male counterparts did. However, they had more than the previous wave of feminist. Gottlieb expresses concern for the current outcome of reactions to feminisms. There will always be criticism because of the diversity and self-interest that consumes us. But feminisms and other forms of oppression have been in our history for many years and with every new era society accepts new concepts and changes. Mr. Good Enough may not be the best answer for unmarried, educated women but reality is, not many people fall into the category of prince charming or the swimsuit model image with the Betty Crocker credentials.
Well beginning with this I would say each of us have different views of perceving something.Same goes to Lori Gottlieb. After reading quite a lot of Gottleib's book, I felt that most of the time she was comparing herself to other women who were married, or rather she was kind of regretting her decision of following the rules of "independent women strategy" when she was young.Gottlieb tells other women not to do the mistake she did, as she thought she did'nt need any man because she was independent and hence tells other women to adjust with any guy, so that they wont regret later.However I would argue that if in her young age, she found a man who loves her the way she is, then would'nt she marry? If she did'nt then it should be her personal choice for which she should never regret.But if she did regret it means that she did'nt really know what she was doing and is simply blaming on 'feminism'.So I personally think that she mixed the topic of 'finding your soulmate' to 'feminism', which are definitely not the same, as one deals with love and trust and the other deals with equality and rights. If the couple love and respect each other for who they are, then the marriage will be great otherwise it will be the way Gottlieb described in her book.She says that if a woman has higher expectations from a man, then she can never find him(which is little stereotypical)and hence she will end up not getting married like herself, but what in the case where a woman marries at a young age and later her husband does not value her? It is complicated. Talking about how a marriage or relation ends up is not Feminism, but I think it is about the place what women get as a whole. Feminism sure is a very delicate topic, and personally my opinion on it is that it deals with the identity, respect and value women should equally have in this society. Feminism took its main structure during the time when women were not at all encouraged to speak even wisely(even if they could, may be because men were too afraid or egoistic that they would lose dominance in the marriage if a woman succeeds). There was no opportunity given to women to express themselves and their passion, whereas men always had their way which is cruel. I would not say that now-a-days women are totally considered equal to men, but there have been significant changes in the way people started thinking.My career goal is to be an Engineer and I dont think anybody is going to stop me or discourage me from pursuing it,(which was not the case in that time). However if any women anytime finds it unfair (paycheck or other stuff)and raises her voice on it, immediately people ask her if she is a 'feminist'. So instead of noticing the injustice happening, people concentrate more on calling her a "feminist" which obviously makes it awkward. Hence I think the importance and weightage which feminism has, is slowly dying, as people take different meanings and call it being 'lesbian' or 'bisexual', which is not true!!
Response to Kristine
Feminism has been approached in many different ways, however you don't go about writing a book bashing single women who are strong and independent but then turn around and call yourself a Feminist. I wouldn't even associate myself with such strong powerful women who have been through it all to encourage and help other women even married ones to achieve a higher status in America and then degrade them after my life falls apart. Feminism is not about making married women turn against their husbands’ and making single women stay single no its not. These women chose to be single, it's not feminism that chose who is single. Men are still on a higher status in this country, while there are many intelligent women walking around but at the end of the day a man takes all the credit. Oppression is something that will be here to the end of times but The Women movement is to help the oppress ones not depress them even more. I just can't understand why a Feminist would write a novel about single women who have too many high standards and can't find a man. Then the title degrades all of us women, its kind of saying settle for someone or you will be single forever. She is using her story of being single to justify it saying being proud of myself for being an educated, independent, feminist, made me single. No being a stuck up, inconsiderate, unrealistic woman made her single. have a friend who is not very open to dating any man because she is independent, so she rarely gives any guy interest. There have been some nice guys but she never even notice them because she is too independent to think she needs any guy. That is what Ms. Gottlieb might have done in her younger years, and because of it she overlooked good men because she felt too good for any of them. Maybe she was but don’t tell a million women hey settle for that guy because you will end up just like me. What a bad example!
This is horrible that I am going to say this but I agree with Gottlieb.I think I would settle for "Mr. Good Enough". My biggest fear this that I will spend my life alone without someone. I know don't need a man to make me complete but I want one. I want to have a family and kids by 25 so yes I agree I would settle. And I don't think this makes me anti-feminist nor does it make Gottlieb anti feminist. I don't believe this is a feminist issue.
I think Gottlieb says she sitll a feminist to avoid pissing off real feminists. Maybe at some point she was, but now she only has a faint clue. Telling women to settle for somebody just because he is there is taking away from their freedom to choose the right husband if they even want one . Women should not be forced into things, some women enjoyed being alone doing the things they wanna do and their happiness isnt necessarily attach to some scumbag(excuse my french) who is gonna stop her from being what she wants to be. I dont give advice because im nor a doctor neither a therapist and overall because I believe people need to learn by themselves.
I think this epitomizes the exact reason why the divorce rate is at an all time high, the high rate of single mothers in America, and this also creates and emphasizes on the disrespect that women accept from men in the first place. I think Gottlieb is resentful to feminism and trying to accept her feminism as an escape goat for her own personal issues. Settling for "Mr. Good Enough? you might as well settle for the next drug dealer, rapper, pimp because to someone they are always going to be good enough. I think the story Gottlieb came up with was in reaction to her insecurity and probably even jealousy.
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